Achieve Radio Interview
Interviewer: Rev. Therese Inzerillo
Interviewed: Michael Robbins
Read it below or listen to this 2 Part talk here!
Part I, 50 min
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Part II, 54 min
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courtesy of Achieve Radio

On March 28, 2005, Reverend Therese Inzerillo from Achieve Radio in Tucson, Arizona, interviewed Dr. Michael Robbins on her show “Intuitive Living”.

TI: Welcome everyone. As always Michael, it is so wonderful to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us this evening.

In my quest for spiritual truth I continue to search for higher truths and more meaningful information that answers the yearning of my soul. Many paths give us the basics but they don’t really go beyond the beginning stages. Many paths tell us what to aspire to but they don’t really tell us how or what to do. But there is a spiritual philosophy of a higher nature which I have encountered that does attempt to answer the more lofty yearnings of the soul. It provides valuable stepping-stones and explanations to life’s big questions. This philosophy is the esoteric teachings, also known as the Ageless Wisdom teachings. Last week I was privileged to have as my guest the President and co-founder of the University of the Seven Rays, Michael Robbins, and I am delighted that he is joining me again this evening.

MR: It’s great to be with you Therese.

TI: Michael is an exceptionally talented and intelligent man. He has a vast array of credentials from a Bachelor’s in Music, Masters in Theatre, and PhDs in Psychology and Philosophy as well. He is also the author of several books, as well as a composer and a musician. And I am very honored to have him with me this evening. Well, last week we talked a little bit about what building the temple of humanity really means. We also talked a little bit about the seventh ray and what that means and I know that you are going to be giving a keynote speech at your upcoming Conference on “Building the Temple of Humanity” and so I wondered if you could maybe touch upon that and tell the listeners what they can expect to learn from your talk.

MR: According to the Ageless Wisdom teachings, every human being has an inner temple that is called the causal body, the temple not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. And life after life after life, if you accept the idea of reincarnation, we are adding beauty to that temple, and so is humanity. Now, that temple and all of the rich, harmonious, wonderful qualities that we have incorporated into our higher mind, have one day to manifest on this earth. And then, all of the elements which we deal with, all of our more common experiences, will reflect the beauty of that higher temple. It’s really all about how to become a better person and manifest that person in physical plane life—that’s what it means to build the temple of humanity. When we get everybody doing it then we are going to have a transformed humanity and a transformed planet.

TI: And do you give specific stepping stones, so to speak, of what people have to do to advance themselves?

MR: Well, these techniques are ages old. The great religions of the world have all talked about this and we have the system of raja yoga, as outlined in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali from India—a system that is some 10,000 years old. There are ancient rules of the road and there are all kinds of ancient rules to follow. It is going to take some discipline, it’s going to mean taking ourselves in hand, but let’s just say that the number of rules are many and the will to follow has to be increased in most people.

TI: I love hearing you say that because I am also a devotee of Yogananda.

MR: Yogananda has a wonderful place in Encinitas. Have you been to the Self-Realization Fellowship?

TI: I haven’t made it there yet.

MR: He has a wonderful teaching and his Autobiography of a Yogi has inspired many people.

TI: I’m always telling people that they need to follow the path that resonates with their soul and at this part in my journey, it is the esoteric teachings and the teachings of Yogananda.

MR: There are as many paths as there are people. Each person is a path, each person is a rainbow bridge to reality. So we begin by following teachers, and of course we must. There is always a teacher for us. But the highest of all teachers, in a way, is our own soul and then the Master that that leads to.

TI: Yogananda resonates with me because his teachings derive from all religions.

MR: Yogananda was extremely inclusive and I believe he was a man upon the second Ray of Love and Wisdom, as well as also having a lot of the sixth Ray of Devotion and Idealism and also the fourth Ray of Harmony, Beauty and Art. He used to play the harmonium in order to attune his students with chanting. Well, we all have to have a path because it lifts our energies. We don’t want our energies to fall down into the usual places. You are a student of the chakras and a practitioner and we all know we have to elevate these chakric energies by a particular formula.

TI:That is one of the things that I am so passionate about because I truly believe that when people learn how to balance those energies within themselves that that truly is the path to divine health.

MR: Yes, divine health, divine contact, divine realization and ultimately liberation.

I will be talking at the Conference about the wise use of power and practice to make things real. To manifest this, you have to do right practice in all things. I will also be talking about fire and water because the minute you talk about the seventh ray, you are talking about all the four elements and becoming the master of those elements over many incarnations. If we understand the relationship between fire and water, it will lead to the first initiation of humanity.

The soul is coming strongly into humanity and this is what initiation will mean, the birth of the Christ consciousness in the heart. So I am going to talk about the purification by fire and water as it leads to that. Then you know I’ll be talking about a lot of things. I will talk about the highest and the lowest. One of the seventh ray mantrams is “The highest and the lowest meet”--in other words, spirit and matter must meet and come into alignment, bringing the highest and lowest together in our nature. This is a life-long task and many, many lifetimes must pass before it is accomplished. We need to learn how to align. The beginning of the spiritual practice is alignment and the end of the spiritual practice is also a successfully completed alignment.

TI: You will also be doing a workshop at the pre-conference.

MR: Yes, that will be dealing with esoteric astrology. Astrology is the greatest and oldest of all the sciences. It is the astrology of the soul. Right now we want to learn how to use astrology to bring soul influence more effectively into our lives. The truest astrology of the soul will be unfolding over the next hundreds of years. Our workshop is called, “Finding your Dharma in the Divine Plan through the Science of Esoteric Astrology” and I think that really says it. Each of us has a purpose and a plan that is stored within our soul and our astrology. It lets us know what kind of energies we have at our disposal in order to fulfill our soul patterns and nature. Now, I don’t know anybody who wouldn’t want to do that.

TI: When you are in alignment with your dharma your life just flows.

MR: And that is the definition of happiness, the flow of soul energy. And it is also the definition of health. When the soul energy really flows, health will exist after the resistances are overcome.

TI: Pain and suffering come through resistance, when we are not in alignment with that which is for our highest good.

MR: We build up a lot of patterns that are resistive so they come with us--from past lives and we have to re-condition those patterns. When the soul flows, then there will be beauty in the life and there will be harmony among humanity. It sounds very idealistic but these days are coming. And we will have a lot to go through before we get there, just like every individual has. But esoteric healing, esoteric astrology, esoteric psychology, the study of the chakras--all of these are inter-related sciences and arts. When I say art, I mean that they have to be practiced--intuitively as well as scientifically.

TI: The other pre-conference is something that I am also very passionate about and that is ceremony and ritual and your wife Tuija is going to be facilitating that.

MR: Yes, my wife is coming over from Finland to do this and she is a wonderful ritualist. And the thing that is so wonderful about ritual is that we get a bunch of people together who are in right geometrical relationship--right vocal relationship, right meditational relationship and they are then able to invoke the higher energies and produce a downflow that one person alone could not produce. This will be the way of summoning or invoking energies in the new age. The great lord of our planet, whom we have called by the name of Sanat Kumara, has a daily ritual of music, color, and sound that breaks upon the shores of this world. All of our life is being re-conditioned by his daily, beautiful, rhythmic ritual. And what we are trying to do through our rituals, as it were, is to approximate what he is doing and which we will know much more about some day. So we assemble ourselves, we invoke those higher energies, we act together and we feel ourselves to be properly used by the higher energies. We form an open channel in the correct type of ritual but we remain totally conscious--we do not become possessed or obsessed by any of these things. We remain open to the higher energies--and always for the benefit of humanity.

TI: By invoking those energies it helps us to raise our vibrations.

MR: Exactly. There are times when you will want certain energies of a specific kind. So astrology gives us the right times and seasons to invoke different kinds of energies. In other words, astrology, magic and ritualistic invocation are all related. It is the science of divine timing and divine quality. In other words, we want to know what energies are available at any particular time—where is the Moon, where is Mars, and where are the energies now. Then we will know how to send up the invocation and await response. Then, what do we do with it? We have to learn to distribute it wisely. There is tremendous power in this. There are great magical formulas and Words of Power that can be used by the consecrated, purified, devoted group to bring in the energies that will redeem humanity.

TI: And it all does go back to energy, everything goes back to energy.

MR: You just can’t find anything that is not energy except if I might interject one philosophical point that ultimate reality is, in a way, beyond even energy. Energy is a reflection of the ultimate reality. And that reality is not something about which you can say or think a thing. It is beyond thought and speech but, in terms of this universe, everything is energy.

TI: But in terms of ritual and ceremony, the words that you use and the mantrams and prayers resonate to a certain rhythm.

MR: Yes, melody and harmony are extremely important because they summon the angel kingdom--that parallel evolution to our own. We call them the angels, the devas, or the shining ones in the East and they are communicated with through the power of color, sound, and geometry and so we have to know the sacred geometry, color and sound and the proper frequencies to summon the angel kingdom and, of course, to be pure in heart.

TI: Almost all spiritual traditions believe in angels but what is the esoteric tradition belief about angels?

MR: There are many more angels than there are human beings and I’m speaking about the self-conscious kind. The same way that we have an animal evolution that are not yet conscious so, too, are there members of the deva kingdom, the angelic realm, who are also not yet conscious. When, however, it comes to the fully conscious angels, in our teaching we are told that there are 140 billion of them on the inner planes. We are told that there are only 60 billion human beings, many of them, of course, upon the inner planes.

TI: When you say inner planes what do you mean by that?

MR: The higher vibrational domains.

TI: Are you referring to just this earth plane or to the universe?

MR: Let’s just say that right here upon our earth there are many mansions--you know the statement in the Bible, “In my Father’s home there are many mansions.” So we have all of these different levels of vibration which give different states of consciousness if we can attune with them. For instance, when people go out of their body, which they often do, they are in an objective world. We consider it objective but it is subjective to them and they experience all kinds of phenomena related to that vibratory level. Therefore, upon these inner planes, there exist angels that pertain to each of the different vibratory levels. There are extremely high angels, angels that are as high as any high human initiate.

TI: So there is a Hierarchy within the angel kingdom as well.

MR: Exactly, and the word Hierarchy is particularly useful when you are thinking about angels because, even more than humanity, they are Hierarchical beings.

TI: I am familiar with the solar angel which we would call the guardian angel in traditional Christianity.

MR: That is the most important angel we can be connected with and what we’re told in the teaching is that the guardian angel is as much of the solar angel as can be embodied in any one particular lifetime. In a sense, therefore, the guardian angel (which we are told are members of the white devic kingdom), are reflections of the solar angel. The solar angel stays with you as a human being for millions and millions of years until your completion of the human task is accomplished. This divine presence who was once, long ago, a human being, now has us in its care.

TI: That’s interesting, as I have heard it both ways. Some people say that it is not possible for an angel to incarnate as a human being and others say that, yes, they can.

MR: Well, this is a different thing. Let us say that we are over-lighted by this great angelic being which has its own things to do upon the inner planes. It does, however, put down a fragment of itself into the constitution of a human being but not its entirety. So there is an ancient saying in The Bhagavad Gita or The Song Celestial, “Having pervaded the entire universe with a fragment of Myself, I remain.” Now the solar angel does exactly the same thing. There are ways in which the angel can overshadow the human being and become increasingly influential but they are separate entities and they do stick to their own level. The angelic soul and our soul are two separate entities but they do have to fuse. When you really get down to it, there are no separate entities, that is an illusion. It is, however, a necessary illusion and one that wil remain with us for millions of years--the illusion of individualism.

TI: Are you saying that the guardian angel is something different than the solar angel?

MR: Let’s just say that the guardian angel is a reflection of the solar angel--it is the influence of the solar angel guarding the karma of the person in any one particular lifetime. You know we all have certain things that we have to fulfill--accounts we have to balance and certain effects that we have to resolve because they have been caused long ago. The guardian angel makes sure that we face our karma and that we are not put into harms way if the karma does not necessitate it.

TI: Do we also have other angels that watch over us?

MR: Well, you could say yes because the entire angelic kingdom is in process of meeting now. It’s said that during the Aquarian age, the new age for the next 2,300 years, there is going to be a union of the human and the angelic kingdoms. They are going to learn how to cooperate and much in the line of healing and the redemption of humanity will come from the angelic kingdom and we also have something to give to them. You see, they are the great form-builders and we proceed by the breaking of form. The entire human kingdom, male and female, is positive, or masculine, in its polarity. The entire angel kingdom, both male and female, adheres to a feminine polarity. Therefore, we have the masculine and feminine sides in the human and the angel kingdoms. The angels love to build and we human beings are concerned with conceiving and speaking the words that the angels immediately make into a form. They respond immediately. There are said to be three different orders of angels.

It is said that certain of the angels we direct or command, with others we cooperate, and others we obey. And we have a lot to learn about the angels as they do not particularly manifest upon the physical plane as man does. They begin manifesting upon the etheric level or the vital bio-electric field, followed by the emotional plane, the mental plane,the intuitional plane, the plane of will and on and on—they manifest on all these planes and levels. So, when you feel that thrilling something from wonderful music or a great work of art, you are in contact with the angel kingdom.

TI: And often people say when they get the goose bumps that they are angel bumps.

MR: That comes from the intuitive level or the buddhic plane. The angels love that plane.

TI: You hold this conference every year at this time?

MR: Indeed we do, the seventh ray is the ray of regularity, of rhythm. So next year is our 20th conference and our theme will be “The Aquarian Christ: Living in the Radiant Heart of the Coming One.” This will be a very important conference for us and I hope to write some music especially for it. I write music related to all the different signs of the zodiac and the different aspects of the esoteric literature and sometimes I write about the star Sirius or the will, but next year I am going to write especially for the Conference.

TI: We were talking about the hierarchy of angels and I wanted to ask you as well about the Hierarchy of the planet and the Masters of the Wisdom.

MR: It is so important to bring forward information related to the spiritual Hierarchy of the planet. It is called by so many names—it’s called the Great White Brotherhood and the Christ and his Church Triumphant. Within the Buddhist tradition, it’s called the Society of Organized and Illumined Minds—that’s their way of looking at this great grouping of graduated human beings. The Hierarchy has gone through everything we have and they have sacrificed immensely because of the power of love. So these are beings who have gone through the process and have achieved enlightenment. They are human beings who are in advance of us because they have sacrificed and given more for love than we have. When we do that we’ll be with them.

The members of this Hierarchy are also called the Masters of the Wisdom and these individuals exist upon all of the seven rays—the seven different types or groupings of energy. There are seven great Ashrams and seven leading Masters, or Chohans, for each of the seven rays. The former King Solomon, the former Akbar the Great, is now called Master Morya and he is the Master upon the first Ray of Will or Power. The former Pythagoras, is now known as the Master Koot Hoomi and he is on the second Ray of Love and Wisdom and he is said to be a master musician. The former Paul Verenese, the famous Renaissance artist, is now said to be the primary Master upon the third Ray of Creative Intelligence, that’s the green ray.

The Master Serapis is the great Lord who connects with the deva kingdom and he is the Chohan of the fourth Ray of Harmony, Beauty, and Art—inspiring the great musicians of the world. I don’t know if we know any of his earlier incarnations. The former St. Paul is known as the Master Hilarion and it is his task, as the Master upon the fifth ray, to lift the veil separating the seen from the unseen worlds. He inspires the scientists and connects them with the psychic people of the world--the sensitives--so science and psychism may go together. And then there was a man called Joshua, also called Jesus. He is now known as the Master Jesus and it is his very difficult task to bring together the three warring religions of the present era—Islam, Christianity and Judaism--in order to end the Crusades and the militant idealism and to inspire us all with the higher ideals of beauty that can unite these religions. He is the great idealist.

The Master upon the seventh ray is presently unknown. We don’t know his name but before he came on duty the seventh ray Master was an individual that many people think they know and his name was le Compte de St. Germain. His previous incarnations were as both Sir Francis Bacon and Roger Bacon and many earlier incarnations with which people are familiar. He may have been the architect at the building of King Solomon’s temple. He is known as the Master R. He is now called the Hungarian and the Master Rackozi but others know him as the Master St. Germain or the Count. He was, until a short time ago, the Master on the seventh ray but he has now been replaced by this unknown Master. But the Master R. has graduated up. Everything evolves in the cosmos, including the Masters. We are always training the people who will succeed us and they are always training the people who will succeed them. We all move onward and ever upward upon the road along the way. The spiritual Hierarchy is coming closer to humanity and it is in process of externalization. The greatest thing that is happening on our planet at this time is the preparation for the externalization of the spiritual Hierarchy and the reappearance of the World Teacher. This Teacher is called by many different names in the different world religions-- the Christ, the Maitreya Buddha and the Imam Mahdi. We know Him by the name Christ in the West but, in the East, he is called Maitreya.

TI: But within Christianity many people think that Jesus is the Christ.

MR: Jesus was overshadowed by the Christ. This is a great mystery. Two great Beings cooperated in the Christ-Jesus phenomena—one was the Christ-Maitreya, who was an initiate of the sixth degree and the Master Jesus who was getting ready to pass through the great renunciation which was called the crucifixion, or the fourth initiation. These two great individuals cooperated and Jesus would often give his body over to the Christ whose consciousness came into his and gave the teachings. It is a phenomena called over-shadowing or divine possession. The inner being moved in, the Christ moved into the body of Jesus, and when you look at the Gospel story you see the silver threads of the episodes in the life of the Master Jesus and the gold threads of the great events in the life of the Christ. And we have to disentangle those silver and gold threads. Two were at work and the Christ was a great teacher to the Master Jesus.

TI: And where can people learn more about these teachings?

MR: The best place, of course, is the Alice A. Bailey books. The Tibetan Master Djwhal Khul, who is sometimes called the Master D.K., is a messenger and a great teacher for the spiritual Hierarchy and he gave out a great teaching during a 30 year period from 1919-1949 which is the inspiration for so many. He inspired Alice Bailey and he also worked with Madame Blavatsky and it is said that he has one more teaching to give out after the year 2025. So I would recommend that you read the Alice Bailey books, the Madame Blavatsky books, and the Agni Yoga books. They are the pillars of the Ageless Wisdom teachings and a life-long study. Then you can read my books if you wish.

TI: And tell us about your books, if you will.

MR: Well, I have a book upon the seven rays called The Tapestry of the Gods that is in two volumes. And I have a book on philosophy, on the fact that we are all infinite beings, and it is called Infinitization of Selfhood. I have my book called On the Monad and it is on the web at www.makara.us and I have also books on esoteric astrology on the web. I’m writing a lot--just writing, writing, writing.

TI: Between all your books and your music you are a busy, busy man.

MR: Yes, some would say I am too busy. Some would say it is the glamour of the third ray, I’m too busy. The thing that is most important is the Great Invocation. It is a great Word of Power. It is perhaps the most powerful prayer existing for humanity at this time. It was held back from humanity for over 18 million years—now that is a mouthful! But some of these Words of Power, these marvelous mantrams, cannot be released too early to humanity because the human race is not ready for them. But when the Forces of Evil had been defeated in 1945, when this victory occurred, the Invocation for Power and Light was released. The Tibetan Master translated ancient symbols for Alice Bailey and it came out in certain English words. And I’d like to, if I may, read it and comment briefly in an attempt to understand just what these words mean.

From the point of Light within the Mind of God
Let light stream forth into the minds of men.
Let Light descend on Earth.

We are light. We are love. We are power. And the human race was meant to be a great station of light. So within us is always a point of light. Within the mind of God is a great Light and we have to bring that light into the minds of humanity. I could talk an hour about each one of these stanzas but I’ll really make it brief. That’s the first stanza.

The second stanza runs:

From the point of Love within the Heart of God
Let love stream forth into the hearts of men.
May Christ return to Earth.

The great task upon our planet is to produce the loving heart in all of humanity and within the planet and bring out the great second Ray of Love-Wisdom--the soul within the planet. There is a heart of God, there is the heart of the Sun, and there is a Solar Logos and we have to learn how to attune with that and get it right into our own heart chakra, our own heart center.

The third stanza:

From the centre where the Will of God is known
Let purpose guide the little wills of men.
The Purpose which the Masters know and serve.

There is a throat center in our planet and that’s humanity. There’s a heart center and that’s the Hierarchy and then there is a head center in our planet and that is called Shamballa, the center where the will of God is known. We’ve got to attune with that divine purpose and our little wayward wills, which are often times so selfish, have to begin to serve this larger Purpose and Plan. The Masters serve them and when we understand how to so serve, we will be Masters, too. May the day not be too long.

From the center which we call the race of men.
Let the Plan of Love and Light work out.
And may it seal the door where evil dwells.

And this stanza says that it is our job to do this. The Masters are not going to do it for us. They will walk among us, they will assist us, they will teach us but we, by human hands and human feet, have to do it under their inspiration. We also have to seal the door within ourselves where our shadow nature dwells. Every one of us has a shadow, an ancient unredeemed past, and each one of us has to seal that door and bring in such higher energies that eventually that door will be entirely evaporated and we will no longer be open to the evil stream.

Let Light and Love and Power restore the Plan on Earth.

These words are, in miniature, the embodiment of the divine Plan. This is, in a nutshell, the divine Plan—the coming of Light, of Love and Power and humanity has to receive these and act them out by itself, under the inspiration of the Hierarchy.

This is the Great Invocation, translated into over 70 languages and spoken daily by thousands. There is a great day each year at the time of the Gemini full moon, called World Invocation Day, where all over the world people are saying the Great Invocation constantly. This day will take place on May 23th this year. This occurs at that very important moment each month, the time of the full moon. The full moon is a very important moment to get solar energy into our lives. When the moon is out of the way, solar energy pours in. The Great Invocation is the best means we have of bringing the Christ back sooner into visibility. He is here all the time but he will appear among us as a human being—not to be born but simply he will materialize and he will awaken the Christ consciousness within the human heart. And it will take 2,000 years to do this. He will be with us for a very long time.

This is the Invocation of invocations--the Invocation for Power and Light, held within the inner recesses of Shamballa for 18 million years before it could be released in 1945 and that is why I wanted to write some music for this.

TI: Well it certainly has been a pleasure and an honor to meet you and to have you here and I am looking forward to hearing all of the wonderful speakers at the Conference. I’m honored.