Achieve
Radio Interview
Interviewer: Rev. Therese Inzerillo
Interviewed: Michael Robbins
Read it below or listen to this 2 Part talk here! Part I, 50 min Real Player Windows Media Winamp, QT, XMMS
On March 28, 2005, Reverend Therese Inzerillo from
Achieve Radio in Tucson, Arizona, interviewed Dr. Michael Robbins
on her show “Intuitive Living”.
TI: Welcome everyone. As always Michael, it is so wonderful to have you
here. Thank you so much for joining us this evening.
In my quest for spiritual truth I continue to search for higher truths
and more meaningful information that answers the yearning of my soul. Many
paths give us the basics but they don’t really go beyond the beginning
stages. Many paths tell us what to aspire to but they don’t really
tell us how or what to do. But there is a spiritual philosophy of a higher
nature which I have encountered that does attempt to answer the more lofty
yearnings of the soul. It provides valuable stepping-stones and explanations
to life’s big questions. This philosophy is the esoteric teachings,
also known as the Ageless Wisdom teachings. Last week I was privileged
to have as my guest the President and co-founder of the University of the
Seven Rays, Michael Robbins, and I am delighted that he is joining me again
this evening.
MR: It’s great to be with you Therese.
TI: Michael is an exceptionally talented and intelligent man. He has a
vast array of credentials from a Bachelor’s in Music, Masters in
Theatre, and PhDs in Psychology and Philosophy as well. He is also the
author of several books, as well as a composer and a musician. And I am
very honored to have him with me this evening. Well, last week we talked
a little bit about what building the temple of humanity really means. We
also talked a little bit about the seventh ray and what that means and
I know that you are going to be giving a keynote speech at your upcoming
Conference on “Building the Temple of Humanity” and so I wondered
if you could maybe touch upon that and tell the listeners what they can
expect to learn from your talk.
MR: According to the Ageless Wisdom teachings, every human being has an
inner temple that is called the causal body, the temple not made with hands,
eternal in the heavens. And life after life after life, if you accept the
idea of reincarnation, we are adding beauty to that temple, and so is humanity.
Now, that temple and all of the rich, harmonious, wonderful qualities that
we have incorporated into our higher mind, have one day to manifest on
this earth. And then, all of the elements which we deal with, all of our
more common experiences, will reflect the beauty of that higher temple.
It’s really all about how to become a better person and manifest
that person in physical plane life—that’s what it means to
build the temple of humanity. When we get everybody doing it then we are
going to have a transformed humanity and a transformed planet.
TI: And do you give specific stepping stones, so to speak, of what people
have to do to advance themselves?
MR: Well, these techniques are ages old. The great religions of the world
have all talked about this and we have the system of raja yoga, as outlined
in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali from India—a system that is some
10,000 years old. There are ancient rules of the road and there are all
kinds of ancient rules to follow. It is going to take some discipline,
it’s going to mean taking ourselves in hand, but let’s just
say that the number of rules are many and the will to follow has to be
increased in most people.
TI: I love hearing you say that because I am also a devotee of Yogananda.
MR: Yogananda has a wonderful place in Encinitas. Have you been to the
Self-Realization Fellowship?
TI: I haven’t made it there yet.
MR: He has a wonderful teaching and his Autobiography of a Yogi has inspired
many people.
TI: I’m always telling people that they need to follow the path
that resonates with their soul and at this part in my journey, it is the
esoteric teachings and the teachings of Yogananda.
MR: There are as many paths as there are people. Each person is a path,
each person is a rainbow bridge to reality. So we begin by following teachers,
and of course we must. There is always a teacher for us. But the highest
of all teachers, in a way, is our own soul and then the Master that that
leads to.
TI: Yogananda resonates with me because his teachings derive from all
religions.
MR: Yogananda was extremely inclusive and I believe he was a man upon
the second Ray of Love and Wisdom, as well as also having a lot of the
sixth Ray of Devotion and Idealism and also the fourth Ray of Harmony,
Beauty and Art. He used to play the harmonium in order to attune his students
with chanting. Well, we all have to have a path because it lifts our energies.
We don’t want our energies to fall down into the usual places. You
are a student of the chakras and a practitioner and we all know we have
to elevate these chakric energies by a particular formula.
TI:That is one of the things that I am so passionate about because I truly
believe that when people learn how to balance those energies within themselves
that that truly is the path to divine health.
I will be talking at the Conference about the wise use of power and practice
to make things real. To manifest this, you have to do right practice in
all things. I will also be talking about fire and water because the minute
you talk about the seventh ray, you are talking about all the four elements
and becoming the master of those elements over many incarnations. If we
understand the relationship between fire and water, it will lead to the
first initiation of humanity.
The soul is coming strongly into humanity and this is what initiation
will mean, the birth of the Christ consciousness in the heart. So I am
going to talk about the purification by fire and water as it leads to that.
Then you know I’ll be talking about a lot of things. I will talk
about the highest and the lowest. One of the seventh ray mantrams is “The
highest and the lowest meet”--in other words, spirit and matter must
meet and come into alignment, bringing the highest and lowest together
in our nature. This is a life-long task and many, many lifetimes must pass
before it is accomplished. We need to learn how to align. The beginning
of the spiritual practice is alignment and the end of the spiritual practice
is also a successfully completed alignment.
TI: You will also be doing a workshop at the pre-conference.
MR: Yes, that will be dealing with esoteric astrology. Astrology is the
greatest and oldest of all the sciences. It is the astrology of the soul.
Right now we want to learn how to use astrology to bring soul influence
more effectively into our lives. The truest astrology of the soul will
be unfolding over the next hundreds of years. Our workshop is called, “Finding
your Dharma in the Divine Plan through the Science of Esoteric Astrology” and
I think that really says it. Each of us has a purpose and a plan that is
stored within our soul and our astrology. It lets us know what kind of
energies we have at our disposal in order to fulfill our soul patterns
and nature. Now, I don’t know anybody who wouldn’t want to
do that.
TI: When you are in alignment with your dharma your life just flows.
MR: And that is the definition of happiness, the flow of soul energy.
And it is also the definition of health. When the soul energy really flows,
health will exist after the resistances are overcome.
TI: Pain and suffering come through resistance, when we are not in alignment
with that which is for our highest good.
MR: We build up a lot of patterns that are resistive so they come with
us--from past lives and we have to re-condition those patterns. When the
soul flows, then there will be beauty in the life and there will be harmony
among humanity. It sounds very idealistic but these days are coming. And
we will have a lot to go through before we get there, just like every individual
has. But esoteric healing, esoteric astrology, esoteric psychology, the
study of the chakras--all of these are inter-related sciences and arts.
When I say art, I mean that they have to be practiced--intuitively as well
as scientifically.
TI: The other pre-conference is something that I am also very passionate
about and that is ceremony and ritual and your wife Tuija is going to be
facilitating that.
MR: Yes, my wife is coming over from Finland to do this and she is a wonderful
ritualist. And the thing that is so wonderful about ritual is that we get
a bunch of people together who are in right geometrical relationship--right
vocal relationship, right meditational relationship and they are then able
to invoke the higher energies and produce a downflow that one person alone
could not produce. This will be the way of summoning or invoking energies
in the new age. The great lord of our planet, whom we have called by the
name of Sanat Kumara, has a daily ritual of music, color, and sound that
breaks upon the shores of this world. All of our life is being re-conditioned
by his daily, beautiful, rhythmic ritual. And what we are trying to do
through our rituals, as it were, is to approximate what he is doing and
which we will know much more about some day. So we assemble ourselves,
we invoke those higher energies, we act together and we feel ourselves
to be properly used by the higher energies. We form an open channel in
the correct type of ritual but we remain totally conscious--we do not become
possessed or obsessed by any of these things. We remain open to the higher
energies--and always for the benefit of humanity.
TI: By invoking those energies it helps us to raise our vibrations.
MR: Exactly. There are times when you will want certain energies of a
specific kind. So astrology gives us the right times and seasons to invoke
different kinds of energies. In other words, astrology, magic and ritualistic
invocation are all related. It is the science of divine timing and divine
quality. In other words, we want to know what energies are available at
any particular time—where is the Moon, where is Mars, and where are
the energies now. Then we will know how to send up the invocation and await
response. Then, what do we do with it? We have to learn to distribute it
wisely. There is tremendous power in this. There are great magical formulas
and Words of Power that can be used by the consecrated, purified, devoted
group to bring in the energies that will redeem humanity.
TI: And it all does go back to energy, everything goes back to energy.
MR: You just can’t find anything that is not energy except if I
might interject one philosophical point that ultimate reality is, in a
way, beyond even energy. Energy is a reflection of the ultimate reality.
And that reality is not something about which you can say or think a thing.
It is beyond thought and speech but, in terms of this universe, everything
is energy.
TI: But in terms of ritual and ceremony, the words that you use and the
mantrams and prayers resonate to a certain rhythm.
MR: Yes, melody and harmony are extremely important because they summon
the angel kingdom--that parallel evolution to our own. We call them the
angels, the devas, or the shining ones in the East and they are communicated
with through the power of color, sound, and geometry and so we have to
know the sacred geometry, color and sound and the proper frequencies to
summon the angel kingdom and, of course, to be pure in heart.
TI: Almost all spiritual traditions believe in angels but what is the
esoteric tradition belief about angels?
MR: There are many more angels than there are human beings and I’m
speaking about the self-conscious kind. The same way that we have an animal
evolution that are not yet conscious so, too, are there members of the
deva kingdom, the angelic realm, who are also not yet conscious. When,
however, it comes to the fully conscious angels, in our teaching we are
told that there are 140 billion of them on the inner planes. We are told
that there are only 60 billion human beings, many of them, of course, upon
the inner planes.
TI: When you say inner planes what do you mean by that?
MR: The higher vibrational domains.
TI: Are you referring to just this earth plane or to the universe?
MR: Let’s just say that right here upon our earth there are many
mansions--you know the statement in the Bible, “In my Father’s
home there are many mansions.” So we have all of these different
levels of vibration which give different states of consciousness if we
can attune with them. For instance, when people go out of their body, which
they often do, they are in an objective world. We consider it objective
but it is subjective to them and they experience all kinds of phenomena
related to that vibratory level. Therefore, upon these inner planes, there
exist angels that pertain to each of the different vibratory levels. There
are extremely high angels, angels that are as high as any high human initiate.
TI: So there is a Hierarchy within the angel kingdom as well.
MR: Exactly, and the word Hierarchy is particularly useful when you are
thinking about angels because, even more than humanity, they are Hierarchical
beings.
TI: I am familiar with the solar angel which we would call the guardian
angel in traditional Christianity.
MR: That is the most important angel we can be connected with and what
we’re told in the teaching is that the guardian angel is as much
of the solar angel as can be embodied in any one particular lifetime. In
a sense, therefore, the guardian angel (which we are told are members of
the white devic kingdom), are reflections of the solar angel. The solar
angel stays with you as a human being for millions and millions of years
until your completion of the human task is accomplished. This divine presence
who was once, long ago, a human being, now has us in its care.
TI: That’s interesting, as I have heard it both ways. Some people
say that it is not possible for an angel to incarnate as a human being
and others say that, yes, they can.
MR: Well, this is a different thing. Let us say that we are over-lighted
by this great angelic being which has its own things to do upon the inner
planes. It does, however, put down a fragment of itself into the constitution
of a human being but not its entirety. So there is an ancient saying in
The Bhagavad Gita or The Song Celestial, “Having pervaded the entire
universe with a fragment of Myself, I remain.” Now the solar angel
does exactly the same thing. There are ways in which the angel can overshadow
the human being and become increasingly influential but they are separate
entities and they do stick to their own level. The angelic soul and our
soul are two separate entities but they do have to fuse. When you really
get down to it, there are no separate entities, that is an illusion. It
is, however, a necessary illusion and one that wil remain with us for millions
of years--the illusion of individualism.
TI: Are you saying that the guardian angel is something different than
the solar angel?
MR: Let’s just say that the guardian angel is a reflection of the
solar angel--it is the influence of the solar angel guarding the karma
of the person in any one particular lifetime. You know we all have certain
things that we have to fulfill--accounts we have to balance and certain
effects that we have to resolve because they have been caused long ago.
The guardian angel makes sure that we face our karma and that we are not
put into harms way if the karma does not necessitate it.
TI: Do we also have other angels that watch over us?
MR: Well, you could say yes because the entire angelic kingdom is in process
of meeting now. It’s said that during the Aquarian age, the new age
for the next 2,300 years, there is going to be a union of the human and
the angelic kingdoms. They are going to learn how to cooperate and much
in the line of healing and the redemption of humanity will come from the
angelic kingdom and we also have something to give to them. You see, they
are the great form-builders and we proceed by the breaking of form. The
entire human kingdom, male and female, is positive, or masculine, in its
polarity. The entire angel kingdom, both male and female, adheres to a
feminine polarity. Therefore, we have the masculine and feminine sides
in the human and the angel kingdoms. The angels love to build and we human
beings are concerned with conceiving and speaking the words that the angels
immediately make into a form. They respond immediately. There are said
to be three different orders of angels.
It is said that certain of the angels we direct or command, with others
we cooperate, and others we obey. And we have a lot to learn about the
angels as they do not particularly manifest upon the physical plane as
man does. They begin manifesting upon the etheric level or the vital bio-electric
field, followed by the emotional plane, the mental plane,the intuitional
plane, the plane of will and on and on—they manifest on all these
planes and levels. So, when you feel that thrilling something from wonderful
music or a great work of art, you are in contact with the angel kingdom.
TI: And often people say when they get the goose bumps that they are angel
bumps.
MR: That comes from the intuitive level or the buddhic plane. The angels
love that plane.
TI: You hold this conference every year at this time?
MR: Indeed we do, the seventh ray is the ray of regularity, of rhythm.
So next year is our 20th conference and our theme will be “The Aquarian
Christ: Living in the Radiant Heart of the Coming One.” This will
be a very important conference for us and I hope to write some music especially
for it. I write music related to all the different signs of the zodiac
and the different aspects of the esoteric literature and sometimes I write
about the star Sirius or the will, but next year I am going to write especially
for the Conference.
TI: We were talking about the hierarchy of angels and I wanted to ask
you as well about the Hierarchy of the planet and the Masters of the Wisdom.
MR: It is so important to bring forward information related to the spiritual
Hierarchy of the planet. It is called by so many names—it’s
called the Great White Brotherhood and the Christ and his Church Triumphant.
Within the Buddhist tradition, it’s called the Society of Organized
and Illumined Minds—that’s their way of looking at this great
grouping of graduated human beings. The Hierarchy has gone through everything
we have and they have sacrificed immensely because of the power of love.
So these are beings who have gone through the process and have achieved
enlightenment. They are human beings who are in advance of us because they
have sacrificed and given more for love than we have. When we do that we’ll
be with them.
The members of this Hierarchy are also called the Masters of the Wisdom
and these individuals exist upon all of the seven rays—the seven
different types or groupings of energy. There are seven great Ashrams and
seven leading Masters, or Chohans, for each of the seven rays. The former
King Solomon, the former Akbar the Great, is now called Master Morya and
he is the Master upon the first Ray of Will or Power. The former Pythagoras,
is now known as the Master Koot Hoomi and he is on the second Ray of Love
and Wisdom and he is said to be a master musician. The former Paul Verenese,
the famous Renaissance artist, is now said to be the primary Master upon
the third Ray of Creative Intelligence, that’s the green ray.
The Master Serapis is the great Lord who connects with the deva kingdom
and he is the Chohan of the fourth Ray of Harmony, Beauty, and Art—inspiring
the great musicians of the world. I don’t know if we know any of
his earlier incarnations. The former St. Paul is known as the Master Hilarion
and it is his task, as the Master upon the fifth ray, to lift the veil
separating the seen from the unseen worlds. He inspires the scientists
and connects them with the psychic people of the world--the sensitives--so
science and psychism may go together. And then there was a man called Joshua,
also called Jesus. He is now known as the Master Jesus and it is his very
difficult task to bring together the three warring religions of the present
era—Islam, Christianity and Judaism--in order to end the Crusades
and the militant idealism and to inspire us all with the higher ideals
of beauty that can unite these religions. He is the great idealist.
The Master upon the seventh ray is presently unknown. We don’t know
his name but before he came on duty the seventh ray Master was an individual
that many people think they know and his name was le Compte de St. Germain.
His previous incarnations were as both Sir Francis Bacon and Roger Bacon
and many earlier incarnations with which people are familiar. He may have
been the architect at the building of King Solomon’s temple. He is
known as the Master R. He is now called the Hungarian and the Master Rackozi
but others know him as the Master St. Germain or the Count. He was, until
a short time ago, the Master on the seventh ray but he has now been replaced
by this unknown Master. But the Master R. has graduated up. Everything
evolves in the cosmos, including the Masters. We are always training the
people who will succeed us and they are always training the people who
will succeed them. We all move onward and ever upward upon the road along
the way. The spiritual Hierarchy is coming closer to humanity and it is
in process of externalization. The greatest thing that is happening on
our planet at this time is the preparation for the externalization of the
spiritual Hierarchy and the reappearance of the World Teacher. This Teacher
is called by many different names in the different world religions-- the
Christ, the Maitreya Buddha and the Imam Mahdi. We know Him by the name
Christ in the West but, in the East, he is called Maitreya.
TI: But within Christianity many people think that Jesus is the Christ.
MR: Jesus was overshadowed by the Christ. This is a great mystery. Two
great Beings cooperated in the Christ-Jesus phenomena—one was the
Christ-Maitreya, who was an initiate of the sixth degree and the Master
Jesus who was getting ready to pass through the great renunciation which
was called the crucifixion, or the fourth initiation. These two great individuals
cooperated and Jesus would often give his body over to the Christ whose
consciousness came into his and gave the teachings. It is a phenomena called
over-shadowing or divine possession. The inner being moved in, the Christ
moved into the body of Jesus, and when you look at the Gospel story you
see the silver threads of the episodes in the life of the Master Jesus
and the gold threads of the great events in the life of the Christ. And
we have to disentangle those silver and gold threads. Two were at work
and the Christ was a great teacher to the Master Jesus.
TI: And where can people learn more about these teachings?
MR: The best place, of course, is the Alice A. Bailey books. The Tibetan
Master Djwhal Khul, who is sometimes called the Master D.K., is a messenger
and a great teacher for the spiritual Hierarchy and he gave out a great
teaching during a 30 year period from 1919-1949 which is the inspiration
for so many. He inspired Alice Bailey and he also worked with Madame Blavatsky
and it is said that he has one more teaching to give out after the year
2025. So I would recommend that you read the Alice Bailey books, the Madame
Blavatsky books, and the Agni Yoga books. They are the pillars of the Ageless
Wisdom teachings and a life-long study. Then you can read my books if you
wish.
TI: And tell us about your books, if you will.
MR: Well, I have a book upon the seven rays called The Tapestry of the
Gods that is in two volumes. And I have a book on philosophy, on the fact
that we are all infinite beings, and it is called Infinitization of Selfhood.
I have my book called On the Monad and it is on the web at www.makara.us
and I have also books on esoteric astrology on the web. I’m writing
a lot--just writing, writing, writing.
TI: Between all your books and your music you are a busy, busy man.
MR: Yes, some would say I am too busy. Some would say it is the glamour
of the third ray, I’m too busy. The thing that is most important
is the Great Invocation. It is a great Word of Power. It is perhaps the
most powerful prayer existing for humanity at this time. It was held back
from humanity for over 18 million years—now that is a mouthful! But
some of these Words of Power, these marvelous mantrams, cannot be released
too early to humanity because the human race is not ready for them. But
when the Forces of Evil had been defeated in 1945, when this victory occurred,
the Invocation for Power and Light was released. The Tibetan Master translated
ancient symbols for Alice Bailey and it came out in certain English words.
And I’d like to, if I may, read it and comment briefly in an attempt
to understand just what these words mean.
From the point of Light within the Mind of God
Let light stream forth
into the minds of men.
Let Light descend on Earth.
We are light. We are love. We are power. And the human race was meant
to be a great station of light. So within us is always a point of light.
Within the mind of God is a great Light and we have to bring that light
into the minds of humanity. I could talk an hour about each one of these
stanzas but I’ll really make it brief. That’s the first stanza.
The second stanza runs:
From the point of Love within the Heart of God
Let love stream forth into
the hearts of men.
May Christ return to Earth.
The great task upon our planet is to produce the loving heart in all of
humanity and within the planet and bring out the great second Ray of Love-Wisdom--the
soul within the planet. There is a heart of God, there is the heart of
the Sun, and there is a Solar Logos and we have to learn how to attune
with that and get it right into our own heart chakra, our own heart center.
The third stanza:
From the centre where the Will of God is known
Let purpose guide the little
wills of men.
The Purpose which the Masters
know and serve.
There is a throat center in our planet and that’s humanity. There’s
a heart center and that’s the Hierarchy and then there is a head
center in our planet and that is called Shamballa, the center where the
will of God is known. We’ve got to attune with that divine purpose
and our little wayward wills, which are often times so selfish, have to
begin to serve this larger Purpose and Plan. The Masters serve them and
when we understand how to so serve, we will be Masters, too. May the day
not be too long.
From the center which we call the race of men.
Let the Plan of Love and
Light work out.
And may it seal the door where evil dwells.
And this stanza says that it is our job to do this. The Masters are not
going to do it for us. They will walk among us, they will assist us, they
will teach us but we, by human hands and human feet, have to do it under
their inspiration. We also have to seal the door within ourselves where
our shadow nature dwells. Every one of us has a shadow, an ancient unredeemed
past, and each one of us has to seal that door and bring in such higher
energies that eventually that door will be entirely evaporated and we will
no longer be open to the evil stream.
Let Light and Love and Power restore the Plan on Earth.
These words are, in miniature, the embodiment of the divine Plan. This
is, in a nutshell, the divine Plan—the coming of Light, of Love and
Power and humanity has to receive these and act them out by itself, under
the inspiration of the Hierarchy.
This is the Great Invocation, translated into over 70 languages and spoken
daily by thousands. There is a great day each year at the time of the Gemini
full moon, called World Invocation Day, where all over the world people
are saying the Great Invocation constantly. This day will take place on
May 23th this year. This occurs at that very important moment each month,
the time of the full moon. The full moon is a very important moment to
get solar energy into our lives. When the moon is out of the way, solar
energy pours in. The Great Invocation is the best means we have of bringing
the Christ back sooner into visibility. He is here all the time but he
will appear among us as a human being—not to be born but simply he
will materialize and he will awaken the Christ consciousness within the
human heart. And it will take 2,000 years to do this. He will be with us
for a very long time.
This is the Invocation of invocations--the Invocation for Power and Light,
held within the inner recesses of Shamballa for 18 million years before
it could be released in 1945 and that is why I wanted to write some music
for this.
TI: Well it certainly has been a pleasure and an honor to meet you and
to have you here and I am looking forward to hearing all of the wonderful
speakers at the Conference. I’m honored.